Orthodox Judaism and freedom of speech
"Shver tzu zein a Yid, It's hard to be a Jew" (not sure about my Yiddish transliteration) is certainly an obvious challenge. Giving up eating in non-kosher restaurants and becoming much stricter about kashrut in general, and giving up taking motorized transportation on Shabbat/Sabbath and Chagim/major holidays would be quite difficult. Among other things, and in a not-so-nice double whammy, making just those two changes in our observance would force us to desert our Seder host of roughly 20 years. :(
Another obvious challenge would be putting my egalitarianism on the back burner, at best. As I've often said, it's not the mechitzah--the divider separating men and women in an Orthodox synagogue--that's the problem, it's everything that doesn't go with it. Sitting in a separate section from my husband wouldn't be the end of the world. But never again being allowed to lead certain parts of a service, even in a Women's Tefillah Group, or, in a mixed group, never again being counted in a minyan, having an aliyah, leining Torah/chanting from the Torah scroll, or chanting a haftarat/reading from the prophets would be major sacrifices. And there's also the distinct possibility that my acceptance in the community would be conditional upon my never again being seen in public in my tallit and tefillin, traditionally considered to be for men only.
But there's another, less obvious issue that might make switching to the Orthodox camp even more difficult, if not impossible, and that's what appears, both to me and to my husband, to be a limit on what an Orthodox Jew can say in public and still be accepted by the Orthodox community.
Here's an excerpt from my review of Equality Lost: Essays in Torah Commentary, Halacha, and Jewish Thought, by Rabbi Yehuda Henkin:
“ . . . My understanding is that rabbinical interpretations of Jewish law were handed down orally by G-d to Moses on
As you can see, there's a reason why I'm not exactly known as a paragon of diplomacy. Much as I try to behave myself on my blog, I think that Dilbert, an Orthodox Jew, was much more respectful in this nicely-reasoned response than I was in this post.
dilbert said...
“. . . I accept the Talmud as interpreted on down the line, as authoritative. However, to paraphrase my father-in-law, it is the substance of the Talmud that is authoritative, not the specific conclusions. In other words, the Talmud gives us a number of options. I cant reject an opinion because I think that Rabbi was mistaken, or had a bad day. However, I can conclude that a different stated opinion should be followed. Remember, the Talmud is not a monolithic set of laws carefully and systematically set fowards. There are many conflicting opinions that are sometimes reconciled, and sometimes not. Using our tradition, we have to find the right path among the many."
This isn't a rhetorical question. Look at the response Brooklyn Wolf got when he asked whether it's really such a terrible thing for a man to behave in a civil manner toward women. Not only did Brooklyn Wolf, who's Orthodox, come under attack for stating his own opinions, he was even attacked for letting others state our own views without having our comments deleted:
Shira Salamone said...
Somehow, this issur (prohibition) against talking to women under most circumstances strikes me as remarkably similar to the issur of kol isha (the prohibition against a man listening to a woman sing). In my opinion, both prohibitions seem to indicate that the rabbis had a very low opinion of the ability of males to control themselves sexually. I would say that not only are the issurim (prohibitions) themselves an insult to women, the attitudes on which these issurim appear to be based are an insult to men.
Aaron S. said...
I am quite astounded that the blog owner here has allowed to stand many comments that are clearly Mevazeh Talmidei Chochomim and are openly Bizayon HaTorah.
If this isn't hefkeiros and apikores mamesh, nothing is.
Yes, the opinion that I presented in that comment is my honest opinion. Yes, this is the way I think and express myself, both when writing and when speaking--as the saying goes, "I call them as I see them." And yes, from an Orthodox perspective, it's "apikores mamesh," which I believe means "truly heretical."
My husband and I have discussed this issue, and we both have the same problem. We both take Judaism "seriously, but not necessarily literally," as I wrote in the masthead to this blog. And both of us have a very difficult time conceiving of belonging to a community that, no matter how observant we became, would toss us out if we ever stated our true opinions on matters of Jewish law and/or belief in public.
posted by Shira Salamone at 10:11 AM
9 Comments:
sigh. double sigh.
Shira: Leaving aside all the other impediments you raise, freedom of speech is not one. Short of openly declaring that the Torah is not divine (and even in some of the more iconoclastic circles, even that wouldn't get you booted) you should hear some of the discussions around our shabbos table.
Orthodoxy is a big world out there. One anonymous blog comment from someone in Brooklyn is hardly definitive of things. Now, I live in a very progressive Ortho community (one in which I wish we actually showed more respect for rabbanim!) but there are such communities throughout the country. You are picking the most right wing of the Orthodox and saying "look what they do!" I can tell you that there are plenty of open minded, free speaking folks who are orthodox.
That said: Why not just be happy being what you are? I think your issue (if I may anonymously psychoanalyze you!) is that you are simply not in the right community for you. If you were to go to the Highland Park Conservative Temple, for example, you would find a vibrant, observant Conservative community that could care less if you wore tefillin. Are they all shomer shabbat? No. But they have more there than you have at your's. And they have more "serious" Jews there based on whatever definition you use. East Brunswick is the same. Heck, down here in Montgomery County, MD there are several.
Find your happy place. Stop looking over your right shoulder and saying "I want to be Orthodox but here's why I can't."
JDub, point taken. Perhaps I'm, again, painting the entire Orthodox community with a Chareidi/right-wing "fervently" Orthodox brush, a problem I've had in the past.
"I think your issue (if I may anonymously psychoanalyze you!) is that you are simply not in the right community for you." Indeed. Our move to a more congenial community is largely dependent on the real estate market and our income (see here, and follow the link to round one, also).
As someone who lives in East Brunswick, is familiar with the C congregation here, but has been a member of the Highland Park Conservative Temple for 10 years, I can assure you that you would be very comfortable in Highland Park; I know you've already had a glimpse of life there. And the Conservative Temple offers parallel egalitarian and non-egal minyanim for shabbat and yom tov (although we're not there yet when it comes to daily minyan). East Brunswick is a wonderful town, but it lacks the main street opportunities of HP, and the C shul is one of the last non-egal C shuls in NJ, although they are moving toward the parallel approach we adopted. Housing is more affordable in HP, as well, at least right now.
I'll join in the chorus suggesting that if circumstances permit, you would be happy in HP. Up until a few years ago dual memberships between the C shul and the MO shul were common. Even now they exist and certainly people who belong to both shuls socialize with one another.
I agree somewhat with JDub that there is more freedom of speech in O than some posters in Brooklyn are comfortable with. But I can't say that there is complete freedom by any means.
Highland Park, New Jersey certainly sounds like a good candidate for a move. If we're in a position to move, we'll certainly give the town a closer look.
One of the things we'll have to remember to do next time is to count the number of strollers in the synagogue on a Shabbat/Sabbath morning. I hear tell that a large number of young children present is indicative that a town will have a nice-sized Jewish population for many more years. This is a serious consideration for us, a pair of not-so-young folks who would be making our last move (pre-nursing home). There's no point in moving from one dying Jewish community to another.
I think I'd be content to belong to a Conservative synagogue with a reasonable number of "serious" Jews in a place where we could afford to live.
Shira, just to echo the point here... find a community that you fit in and you'll be happy religiously. Plenty of us in the Orthodox world try to avoid the Chareidi world like the plague, even if most people are polite about it and pay lip service to them.
You need a C/MO mixed community, where you'll have committed Jews. You might find yourself spiritually in the Conservative world, but your practices are more common in the Orthodox world.
Also, NEVER take the actions of people working in an Orthodox non-profit as indicative of ANYTHING. They are generally there for a reason, and are not indicative of the people that they live amongst or live off of.
Miami Al, I just spotted your comment.
"Plenty of us in the Orthodox world try to avoid the Chareidi world like the plague, even if most people are polite about it and pay lip service to them." It's nice to know that it's not just us rebels who are not necessarily fond of the Chareidi approach to Judaism.
"You need a C/MO mixed community, where you'll have committed Jews. You might find yourself spiritually in the Conservative world, but your practices are more common in the Orthodox world." I think you're right. Thanks for pointing that out.
"Also, NEVER take the actions of people working in an Orthodox non-profit as indicative of ANYTHING. They are generally there for a reason,"
I once overheard my boss describing our organization as an employer of last resort. It's tough to make a living as a Shomer Shabbat/Sabbath-observant Jew. Been there, done that--I was once let go from a temp. position after informing my boss that I'd have to start leaving early every Friday.
". . . and are not indicative of the people that they live amongst or live off of."
My boss has a PhD in a secular field. I wonder how common that level of secular education is among his fellow and sister Yeshivish Jews, especially males who are considerably younger than he is.
Shira, it's not hard to earn a living as a Shomer Shabbat Jew IF you are a well trained professional. In the organization I'm employed in, as part of the management team, I'm just an MBA, not a Jew with an MBA, and I have flexibility to work late Monday - Thursday and pop out a little early on Friday. The hourly entry level people wouldn't have that kind of flexibility. The best way to NOT have trouble is a strong secular education and a professional career.
Your boss is typical of his era, atypical of what they did the next two generations.
Ironically, the Yeshiva/Chareidi approach MAKES it hard to earn a living, not just because of lower earnings for less education, but less flexibility from being more disposable. High school drop outs are a dime a dozen, why deal with the one that leaves early on Friday? Not that there are zero restrictions, but the more educated you are, the less they matter.
Employer of last resort is the problem. The people in the Jewish non-profits aren't unemployable because they are Shomer Shabbat, or we'd ALL be unemployable. They are mostly unemployable AND Shomer Shabbat. There is social pressure, among those whose employment qualifications are "I'm Shomer Shabbat and unemployable, please give me a job", to provide how "frum" they are. If they were normal people who happened to be religious, they would be employed elsewhere, so a feedback loop erupts.
Regarding a mixed community, you certainly would do well there, especially if you went to the Orthodox Shul occaisionally, 1-2 times/month... pray at home with Tallis, then show up for Mussaf and Kiddush at the Shul, giving yourself a Jewish social outlet while maintaining your spiritual core. A hat over the Kippah Yeshiva style and you could even pass. If you make friends, nobody will care about your Conservadox "quirks," but I wouldn't show up for your first Shabbat in a Kippah and Tallis, but once established as a member in good standing, nobody would care.
I realize that that sounds stifling, but you don't run around advertising yourself as an oddball when making first impressions anywhere else, why should Shul be different. Cultural norms are cultural norms, don't confuse them with Halacha.
Al, I would say that, in my own organization, we have both employable and less employable people. Many have higher degrees, others do not. But the specialties in which many of them work tend not to be very flexible.
"Regarding a mixed community, you certainly would do well there, especially if you went to the Orthodox Shul occaisionally, 1-2 times/month... pray at home with Tallis, then show up for Mussaf and Kiddush at the Shul, giving yourself a Jewish social outlet while maintaining your spiritual core." That's pretty much what I did when we visited Larry and Malka Esther--I davvened Shacharit through the Amidah in my tallit while still in their home (with their permission), then went to shul without it. And that's probably the way I'd handle wearing a tallit and praying at an Orthodox synagogue in the future, as well. I may have a big mouth, but I don't *always* go out of my way to offend people :) , especially when I'm interested in their friendship.
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